Using Maverick To Deliver AI Video Personalisation for Ecommerce

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Thanks for tuning in to the read Platform podcast sponsored by amp Prince Of clavio today is my just myself James GERD and we’ve got a really interesting Guests on so let me set up the episode And then we’ll we’ll do the Introductions Um but first off um thank you to all Regular listeners for tuning back in Hope you like it and if this is your First episode we’d love you to subscribe Or we’d love a like on YouTube Spotify Or apple and we hope you enjoy the Content so our topic today is using Maverick to deliver e-commerce Personalization with a AI generated Videos There’s no need to talk about what the Uh the what personalization is an E-commerce I think a lot of people been Talking about it for a while and how Important it is and what impact it can Have in terms of customer engagement and Conversion rate so we’re going to focus On a very specific area of Personalization today we’re going to Cover the business case for AI Personalized video the tech stack Mavericks Um uh using to deliver this at scale and Where Ai and deep Tech is heading for E-commerce so Um so our guest today two co-founders of Maverick so we have debashi who has got

An interesting background in product Management comes from like mobile games And entertainment Um Pioneer pocket gems to work for Software orchestration specialist Gigster who are very well known in the In the technical and development Community and then after a freelance Product management co-founded Maverick In 2021 and we have uh um his co-founder Etan who um comes Um from pocket gems as well that’s where They first crossed pulso in a minute We’re going to hear what brought them Together at Maverick co-founder Maverick In 2021 and it’s a bilingual English and Spanish speaker so those are our two Guests today so debash United and Welcome to the podcast Thanks so much pleasure to be here Yeah I really appreciate you taking the Time and I believe you’re on super early In comparison so I’ll see you on Um uh Pacific Time or Yeah that’s right we’re over in San Francisco so bright and early in the Morning right now excellent well we’re We’re dark gray miserable um okay so You’ve got you’ve got a better weather Outlet than us Um so yeah as I alluded to Um you were both at pocket gems Um in the past where you obviously first Uh first like crossfires love to hear

Like a bit of background about the the Two of you as co-founders and why have You now decided to to go into business Yeah absolutely Um yeah so Eton and I um met over over a decade ago At this point I think uh we were both Product managers at pocket jams and kind Of um kept in touch um after after we’d Left for several years and then um kind Of I guess it was oh boy like three and A half years ago at this point Um after after I left gigster um Eton And I kind of reconnected Um started chatting and kind of realized That we both had this dream of starting Our own company Um and you know kind of met a few times Started tossing ideas around and Realized that we actually just loved Working together and so we started Working together on different um on Different business ideas three and a Half years ago and we spent the first Two years kind of like launching Different ideas killing different ideas Not really getting kind of the traction That that we wanted and then I think it Had like uh just like a moment where we Sat down and we’re like okay well we’ve Been at this for like two years at this Point like things aren’t working like Let’s let’s focus in let’s um find a set Of people that we really want to help

And let’s find Um an area that we’re really excited About Um and so as we were kind of having that Discussion we well one thing we realized Is like hey after like two years of like Trying different ideas we really Identified with the entrepreneur right We’re like hey we know how hard it is to Actually start a business and get a Business off the ground Um so we’re like okay well let’s build Four other entrepreneurs Um and as we were thinking about what Kinds of entrepreneurs um the the E-commerce entrepreneur was actually one That uh that really appealed to us so Etan had actually run a Shopify store um He’s from Bolivia uh he was importing Alpaca goods from Bolivia so like Sweater sweaters scarves hats Um and then selling those in the U.S so He had some knowledge about the Shopify Ecosystem as well and so we uh we kind Of started going down that path of like Hey how do we help Um e-commerce entrepreneurs Um I had kind of a background in AI Product development Um I built a couple of AI generated Content apps before and kind of those Two paths merged to create the company That is now Maverick Oh no it’s it’s not it’s funny how you

Can be colleagues in one context and Then you can end up doing something Completely different years later I love The way that people’s paths reconnect in The in the digital space Um so yeah so thanks for that that kind Of context very very useful so let’s get Into some of the the questions we’d love To answer today so Ethan let’s start With you Um because you’re the focus is on on the Personalized video I’d love to know what What are you seeing like what are the Key trends around personalized videos And e-commerce that’s LED you to you Know to to this product route Yeah for sure I think it’s it’s it’s Interesting to see personalized video Because it’s at a very nascent stage I Think personalizing some format that is Already very difficult and time Consuming to produce is just quite hard And as of today unless you find some Sort of automating it it’s it’s just not Feasible so I think maybe it’s it’s Worth talking about those two as Separate things where it’s like Personalization Trends and maybe video Trends separately and then we can think Of those together Um I think in terms of video like Clearly this has become the dominance Medium we can think of back in the day When you were doing even ads on Facebook

You would do them with static images but As soon as people started testing out Videos just because our nature is human Beings and just how we live through the World we see things in a very visual way With motion with sound just became the Dominant format that Roi has just Crushed it Um and then we started seeing something Similar with um live selling and this is Very big in China but has now started Becoming more and more predominant here In the West too where again like the way That we as humans shop and are used to Shopping is doing it live in person with Someone talking to you answering Questions demonstrating a product and The world of e-commerce Um traditionally has been extremely fast And convenient but not very personal and And not very much like interactive with Whoever’s behind the brand so we started Seeing some trends like that Um you can think of platforms like Tick Tock where Um quote unquote or more organic content Whether it’s from the ugc side people Reviewing influencers customers or even Brand owners where like for the first Time in a long time you’re actually able To get messages and see um the people Behind the brand pitching you on their Product and Those ads are becoming more And more prominent just showcasing how

Important it is to touch base with your Customers and form a community there Um and then even when you just land on a Page I think before it was a lot of Static images more text Heavy Descriptions now like in an image talks A thousand words and a video probably Talks ten thousand um or you’re seeing That just images but I think a lot of Videos Um both on landing pages as a way of Capturing people’s attention but also as A way of demonstrating the product Oftentimes when you go into a shop you Grab a a shoe you’re touching it you’re Flipping it over you get to even try it On which is one of the limitations today That you can’t do on Um on the online world but now you have The ability to see people wearing it see Them moving with the outfit sometimes You can even try these on sort of Virtually so I think that’s going a long Way Um so clearly like video has become more And more a part of the e-commerce Experience and the same is true about Personalization I started a Shopify Store I don’t remember how long ago it’s Like five six years ago and even then it Was quite easy to put on a shop a Shopify store you have tools you have Tutorials just the UI ux is like Relatively seamless you have three PLS

And the Clevelands of the world that Will make things that usually are hard To figure out very easy to figure out And the flip side of that is because It’s so easy there’s just a lot of Competition Um so in in in in the way that it’s easy To get in it’s it’s very hard to succeed Um and it’s very hard to succeed because You’re competing against dozens and Dozens of competitors even within your Same branch that are doing something Very similar so it has become more Important than ever to find a way to Stand out and you stand out today By building Community Um and it’s it’s really hard to build Community from the acquisition Standpoint just because there’s so much Competition prices for acquiring Customers are through the roof privacy Changes like iOS 14 have just made it Increasingly difficult to get new Customers and rely on those so you Really have to dry your attention and We’ve heard this interesting phrase from A lot of customers that we talk to where They’re like retention is my new ad Position so they’re placing a lot of Effort in getting people to come back to Tell their friends about it to just Purchase more and more often versus Trying to find this Um more finite source of new customers

Which is quite hard today Um and the best way to retain these Customers like I mentioned before is Just building a relationship with them Right having them feel like this is more Than just a product but a brand that They relate to a community that they Stand by oftentimes powered by a mission Or a strong founder story just extremely Good customer service or customer Experience Um and not Everyone likes the same thing Like the way that you manage to Establish Connections in real life is Not up by talking to everyone in the Same manner not by having the same Activities or experiences with everyone And Tick Tock if we think I think is one Of the primary examples of how far you Can go in terms of capturing people’s Attention and delighting them by Personalizing the experience if I go on Tick Tock my feed looks very different Than the feet of any other person and The same thing should and can be true About the e-commerce experience about Shopping so Um I think those two things that we Talked about like video and Personalization when married together Are just incredibly powerful and serve As a multiplier on top but it’s just so Time consuming to do that it’s just Unfeasible the way that we actually came

Up with a Maverick idea Um was we were talking to e-commerce Merchants trying to get a sense of what Types of things they were doing Um and number one they’re like I want to Prioritize growth they’re like that’s The most important thing for me we ask Them hey what are you doing today in Order to grow Um and they mentioned I try to develop a Community with my customers we ask them A little bit further like how do you do That he’s like I send personalized Videos to each of them whenever someone Makes some purchase I pick up my phone I Call them out by name thank them for Their purchase and that has been by far What has caused the best reactions I’ve Gotten and when we ask them tell us more About that like how do you do it most Stores that did this were like once I Scaled call it 10 purchases a day 12 Purchases a day I just couldn’t do it Anymore because it was too time Consuming so I think now with technology Like AI we’re seeing the marriage of Personalization and video become Feasible and that’s sort of the light Bulb moment that we had where it’s like The best piece of marketing content is Just the one that is so time consuming And expensive to produce that people Couldn’t do it Um so our goal was to change that and

And make it into something that you can Do Excellent um and debashi I think it’d be Really useful to just clarify for for Context for people who haven’t come Across Maverick because AI is quite a Broad reaching term what what are what Is your technology doing in the video What what are people able to do with the AI what’s the core Focus yeah yeah Absolutely great question Um you’re right ai ai is kind of like a Broad blanket term right it can refer to So many things it can refer to like Machine learning models that like Understand customer behavior and then Predict customer Behavior right or Um it can refer to in our case kind of Like automated generation of different Types of content so you have ai that can Generate kind of like text content from Scratch you have ai that can generate Um video content and image content from Scratch so so with Maverick Um basically what the AI does is it Allows you to take kind of a base video Message that you want to send to a Customer so let’s say a customers made a Purchase and you want to thank them for That purchase but but what our product Does is it allows you to kind of Generate the the video frames where you Personalize the video with uh with your Customers name so uh you might get a

Video that’s like hey James thanks so Much for purchasing from Maverick like Really excited to to have your business Um but that hey James part Um the the audio is Um kind of spliced in uh using AI that Your lips will be synced to the to the Audio so it actually looks and sounds Like you’re saying it um that that’s Kind of that AI generated content piece That uh that we are developing Excellent fantastic Um and I guess a question people will Have Um on that on that point well she is Scalability and how feasible it is Because they’ll be you talk about small Businesses and I can imagine at the Personal element that small business is So important but then you reach the Tipping Point where you suddenly go to Thousands of customers tens of thousands So love to know like how is scalability Built in and to what what level is the Platform currently being being tested Like what’s the biggest volumes you’ll Learn yeah yeah that’s another that’s a Really great question I’m glad you’re Diving into the tech here um so we we um Can Tech stack built on like python JavaScript we’re running on Google Cloud Platform kind of like the just Infrastructures that are built um for Apps that scale that are used by you

Know like apps that serve millions of Users a day um so so that’s kind of Where we are from a foundational level In terms of Um what we’ve been tested on so we have Sent Um I think over 300 000 personalized Videos to date we have some customers That are sending tens of thousands of Videos a month um so so today like Haven’t really run into any problem Scaling and because of uh kind of the Way we are built from an infrastructure Standpoint like we we expect to be able To serve like 10x 100x those volumes Without much issue Yeah I expected there would be one of The major Cloud platforms behind this For the elasticity in Skyland Um cool and and another question that I Think is really important is it because At the moment this is personalized Videos delivered through email and I Will talk more about the roadmap and Where this is going later but is this All done within your platform in terms Of like the the the email mechanism that Distributes it all is your platform Pushing the content into a client’s Existing email platform like a you know A DOT digital a clavio a MailChimp Hybrid we still Email because it was the fastest to Build and every Merchant practically

Today uses email Um and the way that we saw was both the Quickest from Orange to to build but Also the easiest for our Merchants to Integrate was by marrying both of those Ideas they’re like hey how can we Leverage The claviors of the world so That a merchant is able to integrate us Into their existing flows or create new Flows sort of Leverage all of the power That comes with those platforms of being Able to identify segments specifying Timing while at the same time building It in a way that was requiring zero Engineering work from our customer side Very little sort of onboarding time Um and that part of the platform means That we’re sending out the videos on Their behalf from whatever domain they Are wanting to send the videos out to so In in in more practical terms you go Into a clavio or you go into a MailChimp In essence like we’re pretty agnostic And work with most crms and most most Storefronts and all we need from a Merchant is just them to configure an Automatic notification from the CRM to Maverick whenever the customer performs A specific action that they want to send A personalized video for and again this Makes it really easy for them to just Create a flow or integrate that Automated configured notification to Come to the Maverick platform and then

The Maverick platform is able to Generate that video and do the delivery For them from the same email that they Would be sending out from playview Uh get you and another question link to That because Um some people willing to see oh well What what happens with like whitelisting And making sure my email doesn’t hit Spam filters how are you catering for That well I know you said about you know Making it from their domain but I want The safeguards in the platform then to Ensure our emails get through Yeah absolutely Um so so we Um we do a number of things so number One kind of the because we’re sending From your domain Um we build on your domain reputation so If you’ve got like a domain reputation Like hey your emails we’ll get through Um we also have like jumping into Technical terms here like we have like SPF dcam alignment uh we can do dmarc as Well like kind of all of these protocols That kind of help ensure that emails are Being sent like from who who you say They’re being sent from and that kind of Ensures maximum deliverability Um for uh for the emails that we send Okay I know you’re using your own IPS or Do you use like clients IPS then for This I’m assuming

Um we we so we have Um mail servers and like IPS through uh Through a platform that were built on Top of What is ampliance in a word it’s freedom The freedom to build a digital Experience as Limitless as your vision Create preview schedule and manage all Your content in one easy place find out More at ambulance Experience freedom Yeah it makes sense okay cool Um and um I know when we previously Spoke you said you know you’ve got other Delivery methods for this content in the Works like SMS I’d love to hear a bit More about where you’re going with those Delivery networks what’s your plan for Extending it Beyond email Yeah for sure email I think is just the Beginning and again that’s where we Started because it was the fastest to Build every customer sort of does that Today but we’re seeing the world move in A direction where it’s more Multi-channel and not just more Multi-channel but with channels that are Less friction both for sending and for Receiving and consuming of content I Think mobile there is the prime example We’ve heard from Merchants that SMS is Just becoming more and more powerful a Channel that they’re starting to depend And rely on more and sometimes the SMS

Subscriber is worth as much as 10x what An email subscriber is we actually heard That yesterday in a call with with a Potential customer that wanted SMS so We’ve started building that out and We’re now in the process of testing that With a couple of merchants so I think Eventually we’ll be able to support Email soon now we’ll have SMS and then Another delivery method that we’ve Gotten a lot of demand for sort of Embedded So within the customer website Itself when you come back to do an Abandoned cart recovery or maybe you’re A customer that hasn’t come back in a Few months having that warm reception From someone that is just calling you Out by name telling you that they missed You showing you some products that you Might be interested Um so embedded is also another one that We’re working on in parallel to SMS and Are about to kick off that with with a Couple of customers as well yeah it Sounds interesting do you know one of The one of the use cases I haven’t Worked with a lot of Premium Brands I Could see in the future around whether It’s SMS or like WhatsApp Um I know a lot of UK premium brands use WhatsApp for their clientele in their VIPs is that whole personalization after Like bespoke events Um there’s a lot of things where people

Want to have that more personal Follow-up where it feels like a human is Connecting with you rather than a system So I can see a lot of future use cases So yeah interest in SMS is coming next Um now to ask you a question for you is So at the moment the the delivery Mechanism is obviously email your video It comes to landing page the landing Pages is branded but if I’ve understood Correctly Lander page is on your domains Here you’re managing it it’s not on the Customers so I’d love to ask understand About What what’s driving the high performance App to make sure that if somebody’s Coming through on a mobile and they Might not have the fastest Wi-Fi how do You how are you technically like Provisioning for that to help get the Best customer experience Yeah I’m glad you asked that because This has been like a very recent like Topic of discussion and Improvement for Us like literally this week we’ve been Working on this um so yeah today as you Mentioned the experiences you you get an Email from the brand you click on the Email it takes you to to uh Maverick Hosted landing page although with our New embedded feature we’ll actually just Have the ability to put it on your on Your landing page um and then we have to Deliver the videos still right so um you

Know we’re using Google Cloud so like Kind of all the advantages Um that that are kind of built into Having them deliver content um but Another thing that we’ve been doing Recently is we actually Um generate kind of mobile optimized Sizes for the videos so you know like Hey you might shoot in like 1080P or Like 4K if you really want to but on a Mobile connection for slower connection Like hey maybe we just serve a 720p Version or a 480p version um so that Allows the page to load faster that Allows your kind of viewer to get into The content faster and just like Experience that value Excellent I’m going to stream then Within the platform when the the videos Created your platform’s doing the Automatic generation of those Um formats and versions exactly yeah Fantastic yeah it makes perfect sense Um and ayton you you mentioned uh Earlier about Um you know one of the use cases for you Know like abandoned basket I’d love you To talk us through some of the use cases And case studies like how are clients Using the the video solution at the Moment what type of campaigns and what Impact is it having on there for whether It’s customer experience or conversion Yeah 100 I think wherever you want to

Have a personalized touch point with a Customer you’re able in essence to Integrate us there Um you can think of from the very Beginning of a journey where maybe Someone lands on your website you have a Little spinner game or provide a Discount for signing up for Um SMS and and email so you have a lot Of people providing you with their Information there but a lot of them Don’t convert uh we’ve seen that sending A personalized Outreach at that point Where people need to have this feeling Of trust know that they’re going to be Well taken care of maybe learn a little Bit more about the the story of the Brand the mission of the brand why you Should purchase gets people really far Into the into the process of actually Converting for the first time all the Way to the end of the journey where Someone purchased they used to be a Really good customer for one reason or Another they dropped off the map you can Try recovering them with a win back and I think the most popular use cases are Sort of Midway through the Journey you Can think of the very first time that Someone completes a purchase maybe You’re trying to get them to come back Again for a second time just provide Them with like an exceptional experience So that they’re more likely to tell

Their friends and their family about it Just be satisfied with that experience And things like abandoned cart recovery Have been really powerful if you get Someone all the way to the checkout Screen but something is holding them Back having the founder of the brand or An influencer just someone that they Will relate to reaching out to them Calling them by name offering to give Them any help or advice to get that Conversion so that they can feel Confident in their purchase just has Really gone uh really far away so I Think tying into your question about Results Um we see two type of results and two Things that we really lean heavily on Because we see that is what our Merchants value the most I think on one Side you have the qualitative feedback That our Merchants are getting so every Day we we sort of look at the back end And that’s the start of our days are Usually just looking at the feedback That our Merchants are getting from Their customers just because it serves As fuel for us you see the impact that The videos are having with people just Responding with sheer Delight things Like you made my day you put a smile on My face like I’m a customer forever I’m Telling all of my friends about it like This is the first time that I’ve been

Treated this well by an e-commerce Company so that that really demonstrates A lot of the value in just how far You’re going and in terms of just like Touching customers and developing like I Mentioned before that Community aspect Something that will make you stand out Versus all of the other companies that a Customer could and sometimes does choose From Um and then on the other side there’s uh Qualitative metrics so I think Um what quantitative metrics one of the Things that we started leaning on Heavily now is building a true Attribution system similar to what you See on your clavio dashboard where You’re like hey like this email drove x Amount of Revenue and and why amount of Conversions we’ve spent a good amount of Time building that so for Um use cases where there’s attribution Windows that are relatively short things Like first time conversions after a Welcome email or abandoned cart Recoveries or win backs it’s it’s easy For us to go and see like hey who Engaged with these Maverick emails and Made a purchase soon after Um and therefore like we can provide Data to customers around hey like this Is how these are performing not just in Terms of open rates and click-through Rates and response rates but this is how

Much quantitative we’re driving for you So metrics differ largely from customer To customer but we’ve had customers Usually go up to 50x in terms of just Roi um Ava style is one of our customers We have a case study on the website but Their their use case is just very Interesting because they serve a Community that is very sort of like Special to the the founder themselves Because the way he came up with a Product was by treating a problem that Was a problem that his wife himself Herself lived through and they’re seeing Just really powerful connections with Their Community getting open rates I Think of 65 click through rates of 45 Percent 12 percent rates on recovery Cards if I remember correctly over 10 Percent of people responding to the Emails um so I think both Roi is like Open click-through rates all the way Down to attribution on Revenue we’re Seeing a lot of quantitative impact as Well do you um I have interest do you Have any B2B clients like you know Software companies because having done a Lot of work B2B I can really imagine the The value of this on personalized Product especially like subscription Products like interim things of you know Hey hey you know hate and how are you Getting on with the software how you Find it any questions reach ours are you

Seeing demand from B2B or is this mainly Retail e-commerce at the moment yeah We’ve got a lot of inbound interest from A lot of different verticals e-commerce Was just one of the ones that we Explored early on but there was sales And customer service influencer Campaigns there’s just countless Verticals where personalized videos at Scale would be useful the one thing that We decided pretty early on almost by Necessity was hey if we want to develop A product that is truly exceptional we Have to focus on a specific Market Um and we decided to double down on E-commerce because early in our beta we Saw those were the customers where the Product was resonating the most just Immediately delivering value it just Clicked with the customers that we spoke To so though we’ve had in the past sort Of like B2B Explorations and other Verticals the vast majority of our Efforts are in the e-commerce space just Making sure that we have the best Integrations the best onboarding process The best attribution supporting the use Case that e-commerce customers care About Um so we’ve been doubling down there Yeah it’s interesting I had a big Software Um Global software client a few years Back and we did we did video testing on

Things like browse abandonment and tried To create custom videos based on the Customer group and the impact was really Significant if it was then personalized To the individual customer can see the Impact that being huge so all right cool And um to answer your question for you Um I know that the on the website you Know you talk about personalized Personal video can boost lifetime value I’d love to hear until whatan said about The other matches what evidence have you Seen with anyone around you know the Impact it’s having on a lifetime value Is there any evidence yet in terms of it Brings people back it gets some repeat Ordering more Yeah yeah absolutely and um as a Tom Said we look at both the qualitative and Quantitative metrics but yeah on the Quantitative side we’ve seen kind of Like three to five x higher like email Engagement right so that’s open right Click through rates Etc Um and then uh kind of going Downstream We’ve seen uh depending on the client Like between like 10 to 40 50x Roi Um on on the on the spend so Um depending on Um like where in the funnel you are Actually Um putting the product like whether it’s Uh abandoned cart or whether it’s Um kind of Welcome this kind of more

Conversion driven use cases uh that’s Kind of where we’re seeing the biggest Uh impact to lifetime value Um and we’re also seeing like pretty High Um abandoned cart recovery rates for Some customers like up to like 12 for Some customers um so that’s another area Where we’re seeing kind of direct Measurable LTV impact Cool thanks Um and it’s another we talked about the Extension of the product into SMS and You talk about embedding content Um what else is in the road map and why Like are there are there any other Features or Avenues you’re trying to Expand into at the moment or an into 2023 yeah Yeah Um again I can talk about that a little Bit um so uh yeah I I we kind of think About Um the product on three different axes Um so the three axes are kind of um Content uh Channel and then analytics so Um on the content side we can we want to Deepen the level of personalization Um that that we can actually provide in A video today you can call out your Customer by name but imagine if you Could call them out by like mention the Product that they ordered or mentioned Their location like their birthdays send

Them a video and you could just kind of Do that all automatically at scale Um imagine if you could put the product That they ordered like actually in the Video itself Um so that that that’s kind of the Content side that we’re going to explore Um the second axis is channel Um so we talked about SMS uh we’ve Talked about embedded Um on on Merchant’s website uh but There’s other channels right there’s WhatsApp as you mentioned like any any Kind of messaging application Um how we could be on like TVs one day Right like so channel is another one uh And then the third access that we’re Building out is uh analytics and Attribution I think it’s um like you Know these videos are great but they They really only work for merchants if You can show that there is a direct Impact to customer lifetime value as you Said and so we are working on uh kind of Building and improving that entire Pipeline that really allows you to Quantify the value that you get from Every video that’s delivered to one of Your customers Thanks so it sounds like uh sounds like Quite a busy roadmap um especially with The the other AI capabilities Um How much of that is is customer feedback

LED or how much of is it is you actually Saying do you know what we need to move The product along Yeah time do you want to take that Yeah I think one thing that we’ve Learned in the past is that if you don’t Build for the customer then you likely Won’t build something that’s useful Um but I would caveat this by saying the Way that you built for a customer is not Necessarily just asking customers what They want and building what they tell You because oftentimes customers don’t Know what they want so I think it’s Quite a tricky Um sort of art than not a science I Would say in regards to Looking at data Um having conversations with customers Extracting insights seeing what they’re Really asking for beyond the like Surface level request Um and and then informing based on that And then obviously you always go a Little bit based off of Intuition or Your own personal experience or what the Market is doing or comps and other Verticals but I think yeah the marriage Of sort of all of those together is what Leads usually to the best products yeah And often if you just ask the question Would you like the answer’s always yes Yes One thing that we learned pretty early

On too in those two years where we were Just building across a lot of different Um verticals and sort of like all types Of products was uh this notion of Driving to Commitment being the true Sign that someone really wants something Because I remember there being times Where we would speak to 50 different People in a vertical Um they would tell us they wanted this Thing we asked them if they would pay For it they said yes we would go and Build it and then when it came time to Actually pay or use it they wouldn’t Um so oftentimes what we do now is we we Sort of drive to commitments beforehand Where we might have early signups Customers being able to like tell us yes Like here is my subscription for when You build a service Um so that you can really know like this Is something that customers really want Um versus just something that people say They want because those things can Oftentimes be very different Yes yeah definitely Um I’ve got I’ve got one final um Question a lot you know for both of you So you can fight amongst yourselves who Goes first Um and it is you you’ve got a lot of Knowledge around the industry the market The customers and where this is going And yeah as you said your own viewpoints

Plus the evidence base I’d love to know What’s your perspective on the role of AI in deep Tech in e-commerce like where Is this heading what what do e-commerce Teams need to be thinking about Yeah totally Um yeah so I think there’s Um there there’s kind of like Um a lot that’s really exciting about Um about uh the the area of AI um and Kind of How It’s merging with e-commerce And we got to think that we’re at the Very beginning of kind of a Transformation in how Brands create Content to engage with their customers Um recent advances in AI are kind of Making it so that it’s it’s much easier Um to generate content like if you’re Like me if you have no artistic or Creative skill like you can use a model Like dolly or stable diffusion to Generate image content you can use gpt3 To like write text automatically Um and we think that these uh these Models are really just gonna Um you know they’re gonna enhance the Ability of e-commerce Merchants but Really like all businesses and all People Um to kind of automatically generate Content depend to test what content Works like imagine hey you don’t have to Like spend the time and money creating a New ad creative every time you want to

Start a campaign instead you just like Use an AI that generates the campaign And the content Um and then just sets it live um I think That’s kind of the world that we’re Moving to and that’s super exciting Yeah I think from from my end just Echoing the barshi the amount of Advancements and just transformation That we’re seeing today Um is going to continue and I think Things are going to become even more Impressive and transformational Transformational than they are today I Think for me AI is is just the next Evolution of sort of technology and I Think we’re pretty used to when we think Of like the assembly line right like Back in the day every step of that was a Human behind it and now oftentimes You’ll just have robots doing a lot of That and that has become pretty easy to Understand and sort of widely accepted And just makes sense and I think the Same thing is now starting to happen With AI when it comes to things that are Less just physical Brute Force but more Just things that require creative Um knowledge quote-unquote or things That require judgment or analysis or Sort of this deeper layer of Understanding and in many ways AI is Gonna be better and already is better Better than us at knowing these types of

Things like DeBarge and I play chess and You have like chess engines that are Already much better than humans at Playing chess but the same can be true At learning characteristics of specific Customers understanding subtle patterns Of what each person wants to see Um what content is best to create so I Think we’re starting to dive into this Place where technology and AI are going To become really powerful both from the Standpoint of like numerical quality Quantitative things but also from this Like more creative side of enabling you To create images even if you’re not a Capable artist and more importantly Saving you time these things that are Really cool to do and really powerful Like personalized videos are just Incredibly hard like imagine someone Having to sit down and record a video For each of their thousands of customers A week it’s just not feasible but Suddenly with AI you can sort of have a Hybrid approach of combining human skill That Personal Touch but make it scale so I think we’re going to say see more and More products move towards that Direction yeah I think that that last Point is really important one because I Know a lot of businesses where they Don’t like the idea of just leaving AI Or machine learning to make all Decisions like you know trading

Decisions around merchandising Strategies product recommendations but The ability to automate uh scale and Improve customer engagement and the way They service their customers is Something that people are really excited About because it kind of adds value and And it saves time and it’s cost effect Because you’re not even thought of doing This all manually is yeah basically once You’ve scaled past a few customers You’re you’re not going to do it Um interesting uh gents I’ve asked all The questions Um it’s been really interesting I love These these Niche Topics in folks in a Specific area I’ve learned a few new Things today which is good and also What’s been really interesting is is Seeing the clarity of product Focus Because a lot of businesses have Brilliant uh you know um commercial Skills but they don’t necessarily have People with product management Backgrounds so it’s really interesting To see how you’re focusing on that and How you’re like bringing in the customer Perspective to drive the roadmaps I’ve Really enjoyed hearing that story thank You for joining us Awesome yeah James thanks so much for Having us this is a great chat Yeah and if if somebody wants to reach Out and they maybe they want to ask a

Few more probing technical questions About how it would work in practice for Them or want to find out about pricing And Integrations and implementation Um who do they contact how do they reach Out yeah they can go to our website click on the chat button Someone from the team will immediately Start getting back to them or otherwise They can reach us through email at team Wonderful Um thanks very much and for everyone Listen hope you’ve enjoyed it as much as I have done uh we’d love uh rating on YouTube’s Spotify or apple and do keep Your ear open for our next episode we Drop one every Tuesday until next time Everybody [Music] For more information on this topic head Over to for our audio Podcasts to discuss a project or if You’d like to chat about any of the Topics covered in this episode in more Detail please reach out to myself James Gerd or my co-host Paul Rogers via LinkedIn and Twitter thanks again for Listening and keep your ears peeled for The next episode

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